Discussion:
Crunchie v0.71 beta released
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Dave Symes
2019-01-02 07:09:26 UTC
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Crunchie is a crunching utility for BASIC files written in BASIC.
http://kappa.me.uk/Miscellaneous/swCrunchie071.zip
As far as I know, there is currently no reliable BASIC cruncher that
runs on RISC OS 5.
[Snip]

Why?

I could understand back in the days, with small amounts of RAM and small
disk storage available...

But now, with large amounts of RAM and disk storage... Why bother?

I ask as an interested, but non programmer... :-)

Dave
druck
2019-01-02 09:02:33 UTC
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As far as I know, there is currently no reliable BASIC cruncher that
runs on RISC OS 5.
And I had hoped it would stay that way! Crunched BASIC makes it that bit
harder and more annoying to patch up bugs which occur with new OS
versions or some of the more exotic hardware we are running on now.

---druck
Steve Drain
2019-01-02 10:15:36 UTC
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Post by Dave Symes
Crunchie is a crunching utility for BASIC files written in BASIC.
Why?
Because you can? For me it was primarily a plaything at first. ;-)
Post by Dave Symes
I could understand back in the days, with small amounts of RAM and small
disk storage available...
Memory saving is not a motivation. A relatively small but significant
speed gain might be.

Obfuscation of programs is, not necessarily for secrecy, but to prevent
users modifying programs and causing the maintainer problems when it all
goes wrong. The plain source might also be supplied for public programs,
but the crunching fixes a working version.
DavidW1975
2019-01-02 11:38:00 UTC
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Post by Steve Drain
Memory saving is not a motivation. A relatively small but significant
speed gain might be.
Obfuscation of programs is, not necessarily for secrecy, but to prevent
users modifying programs and causing the maintainer problems when it all
goes wrong. The plain source might also be supplied for public programs,
but the crunching fixes a working version.
Thanks for making Crunchie, Steve. I've been a user of StrongBS in the past, which has its problems of course. I like StrongBS's rather extreme crunching and the little optimisations it performs. I'm into making little games and graphical demos, so program execution speed and high frame rates (preferably matching the screen/monitor's refresh rate) are fairly important to me. I know from some experience that crunching a BASIC program (via StrongBS) can mean the difference between, say, a 60 fps frame rate, and half that! Or the difference between a rock-solid consistent 60 fps, and an inconsistent 60 fps. So, yes, it can make a difference.

I haven't downloaded Crunchie yet, but I certainly will do.

I usually include the uncrunched versions of a program with the crunched one (the latter being the one that I want people to actually run). I'm not at all interested in obfuscating my (usually) crap code; I just want to give the interpreter a little less work to do.


David.
--

http://www.proggies.uk/riscosstuff/index_riscos.html
Steve Drain
2019-01-02 15:16:07 UTC
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Post by DavidW1975
I've been a user of StrongBS in the past, which has its problems of
course. I like StrongBS's rather extreme crunching and the little
optimisations it performs.
I think I should make clear that Crunchie will crunch BASIC programs,
but it will not crunch ALL BASIC programs. It is quite naive and
programs must be written with crunching in mind. Particularly, they must
be 'well-formed' with all the right keywords and no tricks. Crunchie is
also quite simple with the assembler, which is a minefield.

It is no replacement for BC or StrongBS. Sorry.
druck
2019-01-02 16:21:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Drain
Obfuscation of programs is, not necessarily for secrecy, but to prevent
users modifying programs and causing the maintainer problems when it all
goes wrong. The plain source might also be supplied for public programs,
but the crunching fixes a working version.
Ironically it probably means there will be more mistakes if anyone tries
to modify a crunched program, but it's a good point. Perhaps a useful
feature for both crunched and crunched BASIC programs is generating a
checksum, and having a routine which warns users that it has been
modified, and contact the maintainer for a unmodified copy if there are
problems.

---druck

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